20:17:05 From Joyce Thacker : Tryst- check the Dictionary of the Scots Language-
synonymous with cattle fairs etc
20:21:31 From Robin Bundy : Was a tryst not originally a meeting or meeting place,
a lovers' tryst being a later specific meeting?
20:22:51 From Joyce Thacker : the Scots language dictionary makes reference to
this- pre 1700s and post
20:26:03 From Sue Arnott : What would have been the status of these drove roads?
Were they highways or did the drovers get permission to cross land?
20:28:11 From Geraldine : Was each beast marked by its owner? Otherwise how would
he be paid at the end?
20:29:47 From Tim Quantrill : Was it true money was left at the inns for the dogs
which were sent home on their own?
20:33:33 From Jeanne Carr : Brian Blessed
20:33:42 From carol : Brian Blessed
20:33:49 From Jean Hall : Brian Blessed
20:34:18 From Tim Quantrill : Is Scot Gate Lane east of Conistone an old drove
20:38:22 From Sue Arnott : Was there any relationship between cattle droves and
20:42:32 From John : When did banking come in to help with payments / save drovers
20:42:58 From Margaret Dickinson : Highly recommended, The Drove, DVD by Eric
Robson (broadcaster and writer) and a team. Filmed around 1990, they drove cattle
the Highlands to Smithfield.
20:46:40 From John : Do you have any info about old well preserved drove inn above
Mallerstang (Lady Annes WaY) which seems to have paddock attached for grazing?
20:47:52 From Jean Hall : Durham Ox is common pub name like Craven Heifer. Famous
animal. A DO on the A46 in Leicestershire
20:48:59 From Margaret Dickinson : There are two, I think one is High Syke and
there's a Horse Pasture near one of them. The drovers and packmen didn't use the
20:49:11 From Jeanne Carr : My grandad Moon always called cattle be-ase (2 syllables).
I think bease is the same word.
20:50:07 From Joyce Thacker : I come from Galloway- Beese is still used to describe
20:51:12 From Jean Hall : Falkirk only place in Scotland where bagpipes were permitted
20:54:56 From Joyce Thacker : excellent- 20 is â€scoreâ€!
20:55:42 From katie yorke : what an excellent talk, thank you
20:55:54 From Joyce Thacker : thank you so much for tonightâ€s
talk. coming from Galloway older folks still talk about driving
20:55:56 From Judy Rogers : Many thanks David. Great to hear you again.
20:56:02 From Sarah : Thank you very much
20:56:07 From Joyce Thacker : droving that is!
Some responses from David:
BANKING AND DROVING
The Bank of Scotland was founded in 1695 and played a key role in issuing credit
notes to drovers; Coutts from 1723 and RBS from 1727 were also instrumental. The
British Linen Bank (actually Scottish) was founded in 1747 and was also involved
in financing drovers, including Â£2000 for Birtwhistle in 1767.
The first true bank issuing bank notes rather than promisory notes was the
Banc yr Eidion Ddu (Bank of the Black Ox) founded specifically for cattle droving
in 1799, followed in 1810 by the Banc yr Ddafad Ddu (Black Sheep Bank) for sheep
droving which was more important in Wales than from Scotland. Then the Swaledale
& Wensleydale Banking Co founded in 1836 partly to aid the droving trade;
and the Scottish Commercial Bank and the Falkirk Bank for which I have no dates.
On tryst, I wasn't wondering out loud what the word means but what its etymology
Tim Q asked about Scot Gate (Ash) Lane. Having reminded myself where it goes,
its SW-NE alignment is wrong for it have been a drove route though this does
not preclude its having been used for local cattle movements. In 1849 it was
Scott Gait but I know of no ear lier sources.I would say, however, that it definitely
would have been a key packhorse route. Perhaps you could pass this on if you
have his email address.
There was some speculation about the etymology of 'Tryst', as in 'Falkirk Tryst'
"From Middle English tryst, trist, from Old French tristre (â€waiting
place, appointed station in huntingâ€), probably from a North
Germanic source such as Old Norse treysta (â€to make safe,
secureâ€), from traust (â€confidence, trust,
security, help, shelter, safe abodeâ€), from Proto-Germanic
from Proto-Indo-European *deru-, *dreu-, *drÅ«- (â€to
be firm, be solidâ€). Doublet of trust (which see)."
Etymology online gives:
"late 14c., "appointment to meet at a certain time and place,"
from Old French tristre "waiting place, appointed station in hunting,"
probably from a Scandinavian source such as Old Norse treysta "to trust,
make firm," from Proto-Germanic *treuwaz "having or characterized
by good faith," from PIE *drew-o-, a suffixed form of the root *deru- "be
firm, solid, steadfast." The notion would be "place one waits trustingly."
As a verb, late 14c. Related: Trysting."